[VOIPSEC] SPIT=telemarketing over VoIP - do we need abetterterm?(was Re: Confirmed cases of SPIT)

Jim Van Meggelen jim.vanmeggelen at coretel.ca
Thu Mar 16 11:53:32 CST 2006


The porn folks could use SPANK : SPam over ANy Known media


--
Jim Van Meggelen
jim at vanmeggelen.ca
http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/2177

"A child is the ultimate startup, and I have three. 
This makes me rich."
                    Guy Kawasaki
--


> -----Original Message-----
> From: McMillon, Matt [mailto:Matt.McMillon at qwest.com] 
> Sent: March 16, 2006 12:45 PM
> To: Smith, Donald; dan_york at Mitel.com; Eric Chen
> Cc: voipsec at voipsa.org
> Subject: Re: [VOIPSEC] SPIT=telemarketing over VoIP - do we 
> need abetterterm?(was Re: Confirmed cases of SPIT)
> 
> But from a definition perspective, does the fact that a mass 
> mailing campaign (sent via snail mail) is computer generated 
> make it SPAM?
> Computer based marketing databases combined with word 
> processing technology made mass mailing campaigns 
> significantly cheaper and more efficient (and available to 
> all), but did that really create a new problem (i.e. new 
> terminology) or did it make an existing one worse? 
> 
> I would argue that SPIT should be defined only within the 
> context of VoIP and threats that cross convergence point 
> should be defined differently.  That being said, I don't 
> think an operations person trying to keep up with VM storage 
> (VoIP, PBX or POTS based), or the end-user that has to clean 
> out 600 VMs a day, is going to care--but the person 
> mitigating the threat does.
> 
> >From a mass marketing perspective, "success" is defined by very small
> percentage of respondents (1%-3% or less) so anything that 
> significantly increases the number of people who receive the 
> marketing material cheaply and quickly is going to be very 
> popular with marketing folks, as well as political 
> organizations.  Doesn't mean that purveyors of online porn 
> and the like are going to switch to SPIT from SPAM, however.
> 
> Matt
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Voipsec-bounces at voipsa.org 
> [mailto:Voipsec-bounces at voipsa.org] On Behalf Of Smith, Donald
> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 9:58 AM
> To: dan_york at Mitel.com; Eric Chen
> Cc: voipsec at voipsa.org
> Subject: Re: [VOIPSEC] SPIT=telemarketing over VoIP - do we 
> need a betterterm?(was Re: Confirmed cases of SPIT)
> 
> Good points Dan, one that I think was missed it the ability 
> to make those calls to ANY destination using VoIP as the 
> source. I don't think the advertisers will care what type of 
> phone you have they will just want to reach as many people as 
> possible as cheaply as possible. I have seen ONE case where 
> voip was almost certainly the mechanism used. It was a 
> recorded message (of course) and it "dialed" 100's or 1000's 
> of phones per min.
> 
> In that case one of the destination was an office pbx and it 
> was unable to handle the load.
> 
> Rate limiting the number of calls any ip can make in a minute 
> will prevent this type of abuse from a single ip.
> It will not prevent botted pc's with softphones being used in 
> much the same way as botnets are used to send spam.
> 
> Security through obscurity WORKS against some worms and other 
> tools:) Donald.Smith at qwest.com giac 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Voipsec-bounces at voipsa.org
> > [mailto:Voipsec-bounces at voipsa.org] On Behalf Of dan_york at Mitel.com
> > Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 9:20 AM
> > To: Eric Chen
> > Cc: voipsec at voipsa.org
> > Subject: [VOIPSEC] SPIT=telemarketing over VoIP - do we 
> need a better 
> > term?(was Re: Confirmed cases of SPIT)
> > 
> > Eric Chen wrote:
> > > Despite the incidents, I wonder how effective SPIT is from a 
> > > marketer's point of view.  In a spam email, the advertised
> > website is
> > > only one click away, but with SPIT, spammers would have 
> to be more 
> > > creative using
> > 
> > > only voice messages.  Simply asking people to write down a URL and
> > access
> > > later doesn't sound effective.  (Maybe effective for advertising 
> > > pay-per-call numbers, if they are available on VoIP)
> > 
> > I found this note from Eric fascinating in that it points 
> out a basic 
> > problem with the language we are using here.  The term "SPIT" has 
> > entered our jargon and we say it is "SPam for Internet 
> Telephony" but 
> > yet it actually has really nothing whatsoever to do with the "spam"
> > that we are used to in e-mail.
> > 
> > It does make me wonder how many folks upon hearing the term "SPIT" 
> > will think that somehow we will now be receiving messages about 
> > various performance-enhancing products, watches, sons and 
> daughters of
> 
> > deposed dictators, better mortgages, and various stocks 
> that are sure 
> > to bring in millions of dollars.
> > 
> > Yet, to me and others with whom I have discussed this, "SPIT" 
> > is simply the sending over VoIP of all the standard telemarketing 
> > calls that we all have been receiving - usually at dinner or other 
> > inconvenient times - selling us potential vacation getaways, 
> > insurance, better mortgages, magazine subscriptions, soliciting 
> > donations for (questionable) charities, or whatever other 
> products or 
> > schemes people think we will buy or fall for.
> > 
> > (And I would be very interested to know if others have different
> > interpretations.)
> > 
> > In my mind, there's no fundamental difference *to the end
> > user* between the type of telemarketer calls that interrupt 
> my dinner 
> > now over the PSTN and the type that would occur over my VoIP phone.
> > Both interrupt my dinner and both are trying to sell me 
> stuff that I 
> > probably don't want.  (And yes, you can tell by my attitude 
> that I'm 
> > on the US do-not-call list.)
> > 
> > The only difference is on a *technical* end where it is 
> just that much
> 
> > easier for the telemarketer to make the calls.
> > Instead of having to pay for all the PSTN-connected lines, 
> equipment, 
> > etc., and having the time delays inherent in the PSTN connection 
> > sequence, a telemarketer just needs a big fat pipe and appropriate 
> > software.  (And needs there NOT to be appropriate identity 
> standards 
> > that might prevent their actions.)
> > 
> > Other than that, it's the same unsolicited direct calling we get 
> > today.
> > 
> > But it does point out a difference in our language.  At 
> least here in 
> > North America, it seems that we generally use these terms for 
> > unsolicited direct
> > 
> > marketing in various forms:
> > 
> > 1. Regular postal mail  -  "junk mail"
> > 2. Phone (PSTN)         -  "telemarketing call" or "telemarketer"
> > 3. E-mail               -  "spam"
> > 4. Instant messaging    -  "SPIM"   (have also seen this 
> just called 
> > "spam")
> > 5. SMS                  -  ??   (just "spam" or "SMS spam"?[1])
> > 6. VoIP                 -  "SPIT"
> > 
> > Yet (to me, at least) #6 and #2 are essentially the same 
> > thing.   Do we 
> > need to try to use a different term?  (As if the headline 
> writers of 
> > the world would let us retire a term as great for them as 
> "SPIT"!) Any 
> > suggestions?
> > 
> > Comments?  Thoughts?
> > Dan
> > 
> > [1] Remember that I'm in North America where SMS isn't as 
> big as the 
> > rest of the world... so I don't honestly get exposed to 
> spam over SMS.
> > 
> > --
> > Dan York, CISSP
> > Dir of IP Technology, Office of the CTO
> > Mitel Corp.     http://www.mitel.com
> > dan_york at mitel.com +1-613-592-2122
> > PGP key (F7E3C3B4) available for
> > secure communication
> > _______________________________________________
> > Voipsec mailing list
> > Voipsec at voipsa.org
> > http://voipsa.org/mailman/listinfo/voipsec_voipsa.org
> > 
> 
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